This is me after the Lexpo tournament in Lafayette, Indiana. I will put more information after I cool off, but will now yell my head off for awhile.
I came in 2nd and normally that would be ok in an 18 person tournament, but I clearly should have had 1st and it was known by everyone at the tournament. Here are the details. (Even the first place winner told me I won.)
#1. I have already talked about my dislike of how the soft scores were set up to be determined by your opponent after the game previously.
#2. The person who won the tournament lost the last game against the 3rd place finisher. Are you lost yet?
#3. The third place player Justin won all three games but came in 3rd due to not having everything painted. (That is understandable)
#4. I won all three games, including against Carlos who was running the tournament on the third game, received top scores on all my painting, and all my points for sportsmanship.
Here we go!!
#5 BECAUSE I WIPED OUT MY FIRST OPPONENT AND HE QUIT BEFORE TURN 5 WHEN HE HAD A UNIT OF TERMINATORS THAT STILL HADN'T COME ON THE BOARD, HE GAVE ME A BIG FLAT FREAKING ZERO ON ARMY COMPOSITION!!!!!!!! The stupid SOB got curbstomped and I lost the tournament by 1 point instead of winning because the douchebag was a poor looser.
It is not my fault he rolled bad.
My army list was as such:
Thunderwolf lord
Frost Blade, Runic Armor, Wolf tail talisman, Wolf tooth necklace, storm shield
5 Thunderwolfs
1 TH/SS
1 SS/CCW
1 BP/CCW
1 Bolter/CCW
1 BP/CCW and Melta bombs
Rune priest with Jaws and Murderous Hurricane
Rune priest with Jaws and Living Lightning
5 Grey Hunters with Flamer in Razorback with Twin Linked Assault Cannon
5 Grey Hunters with Flamer in Razorback with Twin Linked Assault Cannon
5 Grey Hunters with Meltagun in Rhino-(Rune Priest)
5 Grey Hunters with Meltagun in Rhino-(Rune Priest)
Landspeeder-Typhoon/Missle Launcher
Longfangs with 2 Plasma Cannons and 3 Multi Meltas
W /Razorback w-Lasplas
Longfangs with 2 LasCannons and 3 Missle Launchers
W /Razorback w-Lasplas
1 Predator with heavy bolter sponsons.
The 5 questions for army composition where:
Was the army fun to play against?
Where thery all large squads?
Where there any cheesy combos?
Where there alot of Identical squads?
Some other question I cannot remember?
How does someone give zero on any of these questions for the army list above? The player I am referring to had somewhat close to the list below:
Chapter Master-With a lot of gear
Librarian-With a lot of gear
Ironclad in drop pod with 2xkrak missles
Venerable dread in drop pod with plasma cannon
10 man tacsquad in drop pod
5 Terminators with some special weapon who didn't come on the board
10 man tacsquad in Rhino with melta and powerweapon
10 man tacsquad in Rhino with melta and powerfist
10 man tacsquad in Rhino with melta
5 man devestator squad with Razorback
It was not my fault he didn't get his tacsquad with in the drop pod with his librarian and chapter master until turn 4 and since there wasn't anything left they died in 1 turn. It was not my fault he didn't get his terminators on turn 2,3, or 4.
I was so angry I gave back the 2nd place prize. The biggest piece of BS I have ever seen at a tournament.
How would you rate the army compostion if I was playing you?
So the TO was also playing in the tournament? Win.
ReplyDeleteComp scoring fails for the reason you mentioned. Oh, you beat me: zero.
I've been playing around with certain setups for battle point scored tournaments. It's very easy to create a scenario where there is an undefeated player who takes second to someone he beat.
Battle points are fail. Sports scoring is fail. Comp scoring is fail. Comp restrictions are Epic Fail.
It's why I didn't go.
My score for your comp would be based on the questions:
ReplyDeleteDid the opponent take duplicate units? Yes-I don't know why that's bad, but you did.
Did the opponent beat you? Yes-how dare you defeat your opponent!
Were there any cheesy combos? Yes-obviously, storm shields were never meant to be used in such a way. In fact, they should probably not be taken at all.
There appears to be a divide in opinion regarding comp scores between the two towns. From my observations, the Indy players are a bit more competitive in their playing and analytical in their tournaments (ie. they want the data to most accurately identify the best player). Whereas the Lafayette crew seems to be from an older time (my guess would be 2nd ed.), where the rules were much looser, and the outcome of the game didn't matter as long as both players had a good time. Their tournaments appear to try to identify the player who was the most fun to play against.
I don't think that either of these play styles are inherently wrong, but they don't mesh well, and can cause a fair bit of frustration if expectations are not spelled out beforehand.
It's unfortunate that a subjective score can be abused to penalize a winning player. Questions that ask if you were fun to play, or if you had "cheesy combos" can be answered quite differently depending on the outcome of the game.
I don't really have a problem with soft scores, but I think they need to be as objective in their scoring as is possible. And if their are restrictions based on soft scores, they should be made known to all players beforehand.
This is part of why I'm not fond of opponent comp scoring, and especially opponent sportsmanship scoring.
ReplyDeleteI've been to more than a few tourneys where I felt I played against a jerk, only to have the jerk watch over my shoulder to see how I sport scored him, then once I'd marked mine and turned it in, he marked his (presumably based on what I marked).
no sir, I don't like it.
@ Wienes,
ReplyDeleteI understand about army comp. But to give an opponent zero points even though two of Five questions was an obvious no is unacceptable. Just because you get beat really bad and choose to reserve 700 of your 2000 point army against 2000 points of another army and loose, doesn't mean I should get the shaft.
In addition the TO should have said something instead of just letting the zero points go thru. It is kind of funny how I could look and see large units of nob bikers, large units of death company, triple squadrons of typhoon landspeeders, 2 vindicators, fateweaver and lord of change, the all skimmer Eldar Army, etc. I could go on and on. It is the responsible of the TO to run a good, fun, and fair event. Carols failed first of all by coming up with the way the soft scores were determined, secondly by playing again in his own tournament, and thirdly by not enforcing the 5 questions that he set. It should never be possible for someone who looses jump 2 people who have not lost. I will be contacting Carlos personally.
Sorry to hear you were abused by comp scoring, and from someone who wouldn't even finish the game no less. I personally don't see anything wrong with your army and would have given you a max score. It's unfortunate that the TO was not willing to address this but it certainly sounds like there were other problems with the tournament as well. Good luck talking to the TO about it, I hope you're able to get answers to the questions that you have.
ReplyDelete@papa JJ
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comments. I have had a great email from the TO asking how he could have improved the tournament. I am glad he is at least willing to listen. I made a suggestion that if there were army comp and painting scores done by opponents that they should be done before the game, while sportsmanship be completed afterwards. What are anyone's thoughts on this?
Well given that it was player scored comp after the game it is pretty easy to give you a zero. (read with sarcasam)
ReplyDeleteWas the army fun to play against? No I got tabled the game was no fun.
Where thery all large squads? No all squads have 5 guys
Where there any cheesy combos? Well Jaws is Cheesy
Where there alot of Identical squads? Yes he had 2 sets of identical squads and I had none.
Some other question I cannot remember? I'm a sore loser so I think his army sucks.
;) see you really deserved that low score.
Nice Breng77!!
ReplyDelete